Reply to topic  [ 111 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Wizard MTL Clone Build Thread - FINISHED 1/26!! 
Author Message
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
burger wrote:
Super tidy Steve, beautiful work.

Can't wait to wait to hear it fired up!

Thanks Jason! Same here.

For those that don’t know Jason (burger) is the guy who designed the PCBs for the Wizard MTL and MCII. Quite a nice piece of work!

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:15 pm
Profile WWW
Chief Executive Owl
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:03 pm
Posts: 35741
Location: Simpson, PA
Oh cool!!! Welcome to the forum Jason!! Nice job on the PCBs.

_________________
Guitars:
2013 Gibson Les Paul Traditional
2004 Gibson Les Paul Classic Ltd Edition 3 pickup
2003 Gibson Les Paul Raw Power
2005 Gibson SG Special
97 Gibson Les Paul Studio P90
1997 Jackson Dinky MIJ
2000 Jackson SL1 Soloist USA
Ibanez Artcore
Ibanez RG
Fender Strat
Fender Tele
Yamaha FX800C

Amps:
Laney IRT Studio
Laney IRT 1x12 cab
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 MLB
Marshall 1960A w greenbacks

Effects:
Boss MS-3
Tech 21 British
Tech 21 Blonde




Check out my band, The Lima Division at:
http://www.thelimadivision.com


For questions about the forum: admin@guitargearforum.com


Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:32 pm
Profile WWW
Registered Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:53 pm
Posts: 5
Thanks Steve & Billy! Hi all.

It was only after Steve sent me the link to his build thread that I realised that I had joined up back in 2018...I'd just forgotten about it!

I'll be sure to post some updates on my own projects.

Jason

_________________
Web: https://headfirstamplification.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK66FgdibWM_gO91XRvTVvw


Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:23 pm
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
UPDATE 1-5

So close... and yet so far. :cry:

I got all the underside wiring done for the board as well as all the switching and pots. I got two of the preamp sockets wired in, but I still have three more to finish. Just couldn't get it all done today... I'll finish it up and start testing it next Sunday...

Pics:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:41 pm
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
burger wrote:
Thanks Steve & Billy! Hi all.

It was only after Steve sent me the link to his build thread that I realised that I had joined up back in 2018...I'd just forgotten about it!

I'll be sure to post some updates on my own projects.

Jason

Cool, Jason - post some threads on some of your projects - I'm sure a lot of folks here would be interested!

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:23 pm
Profile WWW
Chief Executive Owl
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:03 pm
Posts: 35741
Location: Simpson, PA
I'd definitely be interested in seeing Jason's projects.

Amp is looking great Steve. Even if it's taking years :lol:

_________________
Guitars:
2013 Gibson Les Paul Traditional
2004 Gibson Les Paul Classic Ltd Edition 3 pickup
2003 Gibson Les Paul Raw Power
2005 Gibson SG Special
97 Gibson Les Paul Studio P90
1997 Jackson Dinky MIJ
2000 Jackson SL1 Soloist USA
Ibanez Artcore
Ibanez RG
Fender Strat
Fender Tele
Yamaha FX800C

Amps:
Laney IRT Studio
Laney IRT 1x12 cab
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 MLB
Marshall 1960A w greenbacks

Effects:
Boss MS-3
Tech 21 British
Tech 21 Blonde




Check out my band, The Lima Division at:
http://www.thelimadivision.com


For questions about the forum: admin@guitargearforum.com


Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:35 pm
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
GuitarBilly wrote:
Amp is looking great Steve. Even if it's taking years :lol:

:thu: Wish I could have finished it yesterday...

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:34 pm
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
UPDATE 1-14 FINISHED BUILD AND TROUBLESHOOTING

I wrote this one up in a bit of detail for those who might want to get an idea of what goes into troubleshooting a new build... yes, it's long... and probably boring to most... :thu:

Finished the build last Friday and started testing it Sunday. Put in the preamp tubes and turned on the power (still in standby) and the lamp came on, preamp tubes lit up and heater voltages looked good. Relays were getting power and the push pulls were toggling the LEDs, but two were not working as expected:

First issue - it looks like the switching diagram Jason drew up has an error on the LED ground connections for the Lead and Rhythm channel boosts. I should have looked at it more carefully, but I just assumed it was right. Those LED grounds are connected to the NC connection on the relays in the diagram, which grounds them by default. This lights the LED by default, but based on the rest of the switching scheme, they should be off and you should pull the control for the boost and the LED should then light. Easy fix is just to move the LED grounds to NO on the relays. No big deal - the LEDs light when the boost is off and are off when the boost is on (or do they? :) more on that later...), opposite of how they should. The other LEDs work correctly for switching between the rhythm and lead channels.

Next, I took I took the amp out of Standby and measured B+ @ 533 Volts (later 508 Volts with the Winged C El34s in).

Second issue - the bias range was only ~ -12 to -17V - no way that is gonna be enough to bias 4 EL34s - need that to be in the range of -30 to -50V. The 120K resistor before the diode in the bias circuit was way too large for my 95V AC bias supply, so I put a 27K resistor in parallel with it and measured the most negative voltage out of it at 48.65V by adjusting the bias pot, which should be good. May have to change the 47K resistor to 33K to get a wider range in the future...

Since the voltage on the power tube sockets checked out now, I popped in a fresh set of SED Winged C EL34s and fired up the amp again. Biased them up to between 31 and 32 mA. Checked all the voltages at the power tube and preamp tube pins and everything looked in the range I expected.

Now it was time to plug in a guitar and cab and fire the amp up and... no joy. :lol:

Low volume on the rhythm channel and when I played any notes there was terrible blocking distortion. Blocking distortion sounds super harsh when you hit a string normally - you can get a completely clean sound, by striking notes really, really, softly though. Also when I turned the master up, you could hear slow motorboating with no playing.

Lead channel was completely dead - no sound at all.

This is all to be expected when you build an unfamiliar amp for the first time, of course! On to Troubleshooting! :lol:

As soon as I heard the blocking distortion, the first thing I thought of was the power tube grid resistors. I'm using 10K resistors in this build, so I thought it could be a bad resistor. When I looked at the build I immediately saw what was wrong. I had soldered the wires from the bias supply circuit on the board to pin 5 on the inner power tubes instead of above the 10K grid resistors attached to pin 5. :facepalm: Well... that certainly explained the blocking distortion! I also noticed I had inexplicably grounded the impedance selector lug that connects to the speaker jack live output, so I removed that wire as well.

Fired up the amp again and now I can hear the power section is working with the expected level of hiss as you adjust the rhythm channel master. Cranking the rhythm master and I can hear the amp is LOUD. Play some notes on the guitar and... nothing. WTF? It should be fine now and I could hear my guitar on the rhythm channel before - this makes no sense!!

Turned the amp over and immediately notice that the v1 preamp tube is no longer silver on top and the top is covered in what looks like crystal meth. :lol: Yup V1 lost it's vacuum for some reason and is gone... Not an amp problem - just a tube problem...

Popped a new Ruby 12AX7 in and tried the amp again... Rhythm channel is working now! Glorious, loud volume, all the tone controls work. Pull the pot that engages the rhythm channel boost and there is actually less gain. Hmmm... boost switching seems to be working exactly the opposite of how it's supposed to... Well... at least the LEDs are correct, now. :lol: Gonna have to talk to Jason about this after more testing...

Motorboating is still there, but not as loud - probably a lead dress issue with wires under the board or elsewhere. I'll chopstick around and find it...

Lead channel still dead, but that will probably be a simple fix as well - control grounding or something...

Anyway, that's where I am at now... More troubleshooting to come! Clips when I get it all straightened out...

Pic:

Image

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Last edited by sah5150 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:46 pm
Profile WWW
Crystal Lettucer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:35 am
Posts: 18823
Location: Same town as Lindsay Lohan, Amy Fisher, Joey Buttafucco & Debbie Gibson
Damn! I'd be flipping out if that happened to me! Good thing you know what your doing! :lol:

_________________
1969 Sunn Solarus ● 2x 1980's Randall RG-80 ● 2013 Hi-Tone HT103-DG (Winner Best Rig 2014) ● 2015 Mortatone 12/15 Cab w/EV SRO's ● 2017 Jubilee ● 2019 Ceriatone Model Tee ● 2019 Randall Diavlo
Walt wrote:
But when the hour is nigh, and the lights are low, and I got a little toothpick of a shwag joint in my teeth, and my friends want to hear me play "Into the Void", or "TNT", "or "Cemetery Gates"...I plug my 600 dollar guitar into my 150 dollar amp, and I am a Rawk gawd.


Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:13 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:52 pm
Posts: 3015
So close yet so far! Hopefully there are simple solutions to the issues. This is where I would be totally lost. I'd have to take the amp to someone who knows what the hell they're doing. :lol:


Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:36 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
ajaxlepinski wrote:
Damn! I'd be flipping out if that happened to me! Good thing you know what your doing! :lol:

No reason to flip out - expecting a new build of an amp you've never built before that is this complicated to work immediately would be wishful thinking. Troubleshooting is part of the process! I couldn't believe my plexi build worked right immediately and it's a much simpler amp...

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:52 pm
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
ZEEGLER wrote:
So close yet so far! Hopefully there are simple solutions to the issues. This is where I would be totally lost. I'd have to take the amp to someone who knows what the hell they're doing. :lol:

Yeah, you have to have a bit of troubleshooting knowledge. The first amp I built I needed some help for sure!

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:54 pm
Profile WWW
Online
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:22 pm
Posts: 3698
Location: Manchestoh, UK
The first amp I built had a short in a length of shielded cable so the signal was grounded. That was a fuck to find without a scope!

_________________
Loop wrote:
I’m currently shopping for a 1996 Red Dodge Viper with yellow wheels. Who gives a shit about taste?!


Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:58 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:21 pm
Posts: 1284
Dig this build thread :thu: I once thought about possibly building an amp for fun... but this thread pretty much confirms I lack the skills to even think about doing so lol. Power to you Steve :bow:

_________________
GAB DrumJams - YouTube & Soundcloud


Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:17 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
FAKA! wrote:
Dig this build thread :thu: I once thought about possibly building an amp for fun... but this thread pretty much confirms I lack the skills to even think about doing so lol. Power to you Steve :bow:

You could definitely do it. Just don't start with something this complex. All of us started with no building or troubleshooting skills - you gain them as you do more and more complex projects.

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:49 pm
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
Oh yeah on the boost switching and LED issue. Of course, Jason's board is working as designed and his switching connection diagram is correct... :facepalm:

As I mentioned, I'm using SPST switched pots for the Lead and Rhythm channel Boosts. Pushed in, the two poles on the switched pots are not connected, Pulled out, the poles are connected. The way the switching is designed into the board, the NC position of each boost relay is Boost ON and the NO position is Boost OFF. My switched pot poles are connected to ground and to one side of the relay coil on the board (the other side of the relay has 5V coming in). With the switched pot pushed in, the poles are not connected, the relay receives no power and NC (Boost ON) is selected. When the switched pot is pulled out, the other end of the coil is grounded and the relay receives DC voltage, powering it on and switching to the NO position (Boost OFF). So with these switched pots, pulling them turns the boost off and by default (pushed in) boost is on.

Now... my faceplate says "Pull Boost", so it's backwards. Of course, the board could be re-designed to work with this kind of switched pot, by putting the Boost circuits and LED on NO, but that isn't gonna happen and really isn't necessary since most people just use a separate SPST switch. Since there's no pull or push to explain on the faceplate, there's no confusion - you click the switch one way, the LED and Boost are on, the other way, they are off. It's not directional like the push/pull - where you have to say "Pull Boost". Jason's switching diagram, which specifies SPST switches and did not anticipate how these switched pots work is, of course, correct...

I can, of course, fix this by replacing the two switched pots that engage the boosts for each channel with DPDT switched pots because I can use one side of the switch on the pot and control what happens on the pull vs push. Since it's my personal amp, I may just leave it - if I was selling it, I'd just change out the pots for DPDT switched...

I know you were all waiting with bated breath for this explanation... :lol:

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:35 pm
Profile WWW
Chief Executive Owl
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:03 pm
Posts: 35741
Location: Simpson, PA
:lol: I have been reading all the troubleshooting notes. A lot of this stuff goes right over my head but it's interesting nonetheless. So is the amp working now?

_________________
Guitars:
2013 Gibson Les Paul Traditional
2004 Gibson Les Paul Classic Ltd Edition 3 pickup
2003 Gibson Les Paul Raw Power
2005 Gibson SG Special
97 Gibson Les Paul Studio P90
1997 Jackson Dinky MIJ
2000 Jackson SL1 Soloist USA
Ibanez Artcore
Ibanez RG
Fender Strat
Fender Tele
Yamaha FX800C

Amps:
Laney IRT Studio
Laney IRT 1x12 cab
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 MLB
Marshall 1960A w greenbacks

Effects:
Boss MS-3
Tech 21 British
Tech 21 Blonde




Check out my band, The Lima Division at:
http://www.thelimadivision.com


For questions about the forum: admin@guitargearforum.com


Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:44 pm
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
GuitarBilly wrote:
:lol: I have been reading all the troubleshooting notes. A lot of this stuff goes right over my head but it's interesting nonetheless.


Boy, are you a glutton for punishment or what! ;)

GuitarBilly wrote:
So is the amp working now?


Kind of...

Rhythm channel works
Tone stack, presence and depth all work
Lead channel is dead
low volume motorboating without playing is still happening

I haven't made any additional progress since my last update, I've just been pondering the Boost switching and wrote it up because... well, I don't really know why... :lol: - more troubleshooting this weekend!

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:11 pm
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
Whoops...

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Last edited by sah5150 on Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:35 pm
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:52 pm
Posts: 3015
Glad you got it worked out. Very tidy!

Can't wait for clipzzzz


Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:41 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
ZEEGLER wrote:
Glad you got it worked out. Very tidy!

Can't wait for clipzzzz

Well... I still have to fix the lead channel, but yeah, one step closer.

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:47 pm
Profile WWW
Chief Executive Owl
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:03 pm
Posts: 35741
Location: Simpson, PA
this been going on SINCE LAST YEAR!!!!

:lol:

kidding man. Amp looks awesome. Can't wait to hear the final product.

_________________
Guitars:
2013 Gibson Les Paul Traditional
2004 Gibson Les Paul Classic Ltd Edition 3 pickup
2003 Gibson Les Paul Raw Power
2005 Gibson SG Special
97 Gibson Les Paul Studio P90
1997 Jackson Dinky MIJ
2000 Jackson SL1 Soloist USA
Ibanez Artcore
Ibanez RG
Fender Strat
Fender Tele
Yamaha FX800C

Amps:
Laney IRT Studio
Laney IRT 1x12 cab
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 MLB
Marshall 1960A w greenbacks

Effects:
Boss MS-3
Tech 21 British
Tech 21 Blonde




Check out my band, The Lima Division at:
http://www.thelimadivision.com


For questions about the forum: admin@guitargearforum.com


Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:09 pm
Profile WWW
Crystal Lettucer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:35 am
Posts: 18823
Location: Same town as Lindsay Lohan, Amy Fisher, Joey Buttafucco & Debbie Gibson
Function Generator? Now, that needs some looking into! :nerd:

_________________
1969 Sunn Solarus ● 2x 1980's Randall RG-80 ● 2013 Hi-Tone HT103-DG (Winner Best Rig 2014) ● 2015 Mortatone 12/15 Cab w/EV SRO's ● 2017 Jubilee ● 2019 Ceriatone Model Tee ● 2019 Randall Diavlo
Walt wrote:
But when the hour is nigh, and the lights are low, and I got a little toothpick of a shwag joint in my teeth, and my friends want to hear me play "Into the Void", or "TNT", "or "Cemetery Gates"...I plug my 600 dollar guitar into my 150 dollar amp, and I am a Rawk gawd.


Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:13 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
ajaxlepinski wrote:
Function Generator? Now, that needs some looking into! :nerd:

You could call it a signal generator as well. You just use one to inject a signal into the front of the amp so you can see what the circuit is doing to it on your o-scope...

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:36 pm
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 3102
Location: Henning Amplification
GuitarBilly wrote:
this been going on SINCE LAST YEAR!!!!

:lol:

kidding man. Amp looks awesome. Can't wait to hear the final product.

:thu:

Steve

_________________
Henning Amplification Website - http://www.henningamps.com
My Music Page (Mojave PeaceMaker, Axe-FX, Mesa MKIV and PODXT Pro Clips)


Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:37 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 111 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: andvari7, Bing [Bot], duncan, EndTime, grooveHT, IndyWS6, Landshark, LukeBurke1, MacaroniSalad, Maddnotez, Majestic-12 [Bot], mincy, primeholy, Zozobra and 32 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  




Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group